I don’t think I’ve ever read anything quite like this book which could be described as a dialogical encounter between Dogen and several western thinkers, including Spinosa Leibnitz and Heidegger.
Dare I say "Timely post"? -- It would be interesting to explore how "timely" fits into this picture of the impermanence of which Dogen taught. Shingon Buddhism with its very different bearings than Zen would perhaps posit "timely" differently with its esoteric practices making enlightenment immediately possible. Even the notion of enlightenment itself becomes challenging when thinking about characterizing/describing/illuminating its time-being-ess. And, in my own practice, the founder had delved even further into Buddhist scholarship in Shingon when training at Daigo-ji to add even more clarification to the issue of permanence/impermanence. (Given that he was originally an aerospace design engineer, you have to imagine that this give him a unique feel for the matter of time.) Anyway, I applaud you, Leanne, for ploughing through this book twice and I know you've given it a lot of thought! I look forward to your essay. (And when I was nine, I dreamed of understanding time someday. Time, is, of course, the special province of poetry.)
Thank you, Sally! I wanted to unpack the notion of being-time (uji) in the essay on Monday, as well as here, but it is just too difficult to do in a compressed way--except as Brooks said to me, that the Buddhist worldview concerning time is actually contained in the poem itself. It is very mappable to Heidegger's being and time and so not a surprise that the word uji (Dogen playing around with the expression arutoki) has been translated into english as being-time.
Who was an engineer? Not the founder of Shingon but the founder of...? I suspect that Kukai and Dogen share an understanding of time since it is very much from Mayahayana philosophy. What is different is their notion of practice/enlightenment/insight. I don't think any pre-modern Japanese philosopher thought and wrote about time like Dogen.
I also LOVE what you said about time being the province of poetry!!!!!
The engineer to whom I refer (sorry for not being clearer) is Kyoshu Shinjo-Ito. He trained in Shingon Buddhism at Daigo-ji in Kyoto after leaving his work in the aerospace industry in 1936 when the arms pressures were mounting daily. (His knowledge was in aeronautical photography and firing mechanisms, skill in high demand.) The sculpture sale I posted to you was bought by Shinnyo-en in 2008, and I can imagine that much as the impetus for purchase was to keep the sculpture in Japan, there was also an equally compelling drive for the sculpture's esoteric vitality in the recognition by the current head of Shinnyo-en, Her Holiness Shinso-Ito for its place in practice/enlightenment/insight in the sect's growth.
The poem is GORGEOUS!
That you would even attempt to write about time in prose is admirable, courageous, and downright human. Wendell Berry in his poem (speaking to the place of wild things, the poem you included in a previous 3QD essay) noted that animals have no forethought of grief or death. Well, they don't get all fussy about time, who's right about it, who should know, and why it matters. -- all puns intended!
As for time and timing and poetry, I'll include a translation by Natalie Goldberg of Basho that broke my heart for its failure to question her thinking. (If I dare say so, its lack also shows what many American poets don't understand about why poetry even matters.)
She translates:
At the ancient pond
a frog plunges into
the sound of water.
I think you understand why this translation made me want to go to Basho's stone at the Poet's Garden in Asakusa Temple immediately, and weep while contemplating the very inscription he himself carved on the stone.
This translation completely foregoes recognition of uji and being-time in its practice of writing poetry for the reader/listener to participate in the being-time the poem voices.
Thank you so much for remembering Kazy's photograph at one of the Zen temples in Kamakura!! Also, I did not realize that there was a female leader--in fact, I am not sure I even knew about Shinnyo-en. The Goldberg translation is interesting for what she does with time. But I completely agree with this: "This translation completely foregoes recognition of uji and being-time in its practice of writing poetry for the reader/listener to participate in the being-time the poem voices." I especially like what you said about "voice".... the sound. Totally agree with you. I have never been a Goldberg fan though.
Not sure I know who Goldberg is; this translation came in Olga Livshin's facebook timeline. Is Goldberg the woman who wrote about writing? Write Down Your Bones or something like that? I never cared to read it. Olga Livshin is the lovely woman here who read a manuscript for me a few years ago; I never pursued her tutelage because I quickly realized that Olga does not work with sound in its weight of the being-time in a poem, its capacity to create the reader's participation in a very different way than relying on the reader's thought-by-thought-by thought processes.
Shinnyo-en is relatively new. Here is a lovely piece my brother wrote about his experience at a Shinnyo-en sponsored autumnal equinox service in Manhattan.
Yes, she is the one who wrote Writing Down the Bones. I think your focus on the musicality of poetry makes so much sense and is so right. It has a lot of resonance --of course you know this already-- with Shingon Buddhism and its focus on sound. Looking forward to reading Bill's piece about the service. I don't think I have heard of Shinnyo-en before... there is another new religious I just heard about yesterday --here in Pasadena. It's called Shumei and is an off-shoot of the Shinto-inspired Oomoto religious group (that is the group that Alex Kerr worked with when he first came to Japan. He is my favorite write on Japan. Sorry for the delay!
To clarify (again -- my mind has drifted, sorry): Shinnyo-en was founded by Shinso-Ito in 1937 and is currently headed by his daughter, Keishu Shinso-Ito as his direct successor. He originally trained at Daigo-ji, eventually splitting to found Shinnyo-en, after having left the aerospace industy.
Back to yesterday's discussion! I'm so interested in the ideas of time-being and the differing Buddhist approaches of practice/enlightenment/insight in ordering the mind-body (etc etc etc)reflection of time-being. And, without having to be Buddhist practitioners themselves, noh performers likewise have a tradition of disciplined practice that is founded on being the reflection to which the audience is attuned while both performers and audience experience the play together. This reflection can cast time-being so much as to allow actual transformation of the theater goer. And then there is the actual student beginner of noh chant. -- That led up to recital! -- I can't tell you how long I spent listening to different pronunciations of the Japanese r sound! Repeating repeating repeating. At one class my actual sound quality sounded worse over-all than when I started. The recital: Really nervous, especially when I saw I was the first student. And then when I heard Kinue chant from Hagaromo -- I was so deeply touched, and couldn't imagine how I would follow her performance. Nowhere to run. When my turn came, and my voice cracked between the 2nd and 3rd syllable, all I could think of was not to panic into tears, just remember what Richard Armstrong always said "Just focus on your breath. " (I haven't listened to the recital recording, so I can't say how the vibrato I produced compared to an actual utai vibrato, but I daresay that the ease of performance for me from that moment of panic convinces me that a simple application of technique (focus only on breath while producing the sounds) allowed the much more complex transmission of esoteric knowledge (in Kinue's chanting) to engage the fullest time-being relationship we shared in that process of first performer and second performer with attendant listeners. All of which speaks to the abundant capacity of the reflected and reflecting mind-body relationships to appreciate time-being for its manifest expressions from the most hidden to the nuanced and / or extreme.
Read your review of Goldberg. Shocked that she's been a student of Zen for 30 years. I was reminded of a quote from somebody who advised Buddhist practice "Writers should practice Zen and painters practice Vajrayana." I'd suggest just the opposite.
You mention Alex Kerr. I very much enjoyed one of his books you recommended.
Sally, I loved your chanting and thought you sounded beautiful! There is this fertile ground that you are drawn to of breath/chanting/shingon/poetry, sound that I love so much. Vibrato~~~Also what you said about the deep listening which is in active dialogue between performers and audience ~~~~ so interesting. I know I always say this but not everyone has experiences like this... you should write about it.... especially loved nowhere to run, nowhere to hide!! One more poem coming here in an hour, preparing for tomorrow's essay at 3QD.
Thank you so much, Leanne for listening to my utai! I appreciate your compliment. As for the rest of your comment re: my experiences/draw to this fertile ground. I have to say that I've never wanted to write about myself (longwinded comments excepted). I do however have a vision for translating this material into a mythological woman in a poem. i have copious notes. I hope I regain the energy for writing; I am still furloughed. Your encouragement means a great deal to me. I can't say that enough. xoxoxoxo
Dare I say "Timely post"? -- It would be interesting to explore how "timely" fits into this picture of the impermanence of which Dogen taught. Shingon Buddhism with its very different bearings than Zen would perhaps posit "timely" differently with its esoteric practices making enlightenment immediately possible. Even the notion of enlightenment itself becomes challenging when thinking about characterizing/describing/illuminating its time-being-ess. And, in my own practice, the founder had delved even further into Buddhist scholarship in Shingon when training at Daigo-ji to add even more clarification to the issue of permanence/impermanence. (Given that he was originally an aerospace design engineer, you have to imagine that this give him a unique feel for the matter of time.) Anyway, I applaud you, Leanne, for ploughing through this book twice and I know you've given it a lot of thought! I look forward to your essay. (And when I was nine, I dreamed of understanding time someday. Time, is, of course, the special province of poetry.)
Thank you, Sally! I wanted to unpack the notion of being-time (uji) in the essay on Monday, as well as here, but it is just too difficult to do in a compressed way--except as Brooks said to me, that the Buddhist worldview concerning time is actually contained in the poem itself. It is very mappable to Heidegger's being and time and so not a surprise that the word uji (Dogen playing around with the expression arutoki) has been translated into english as being-time.
Who was an engineer? Not the founder of Shingon but the founder of...? I suspect that Kukai and Dogen share an understanding of time since it is very much from Mayahayana philosophy. What is different is their notion of practice/enlightenment/insight. I don't think any pre-modern Japanese philosopher thought and wrote about time like Dogen.
I also LOVE what you said about time being the province of poetry!!!!!
The engineer to whom I refer (sorry for not being clearer) is Kyoshu Shinjo-Ito. He trained in Shingon Buddhism at Daigo-ji in Kyoto after leaving his work in the aerospace industry in 1936 when the arms pressures were mounting daily. (His knowledge was in aeronautical photography and firing mechanisms, skill in high demand.) The sculpture sale I posted to you was bought by Shinnyo-en in 2008, and I can imagine that much as the impetus for purchase was to keep the sculpture in Japan, there was also an equally compelling drive for the sculpture's esoteric vitality in the recognition by the current head of Shinnyo-en, Her Holiness Shinso-Ito for its place in practice/enlightenment/insight in the sect's growth.
The poem is GORGEOUS!
That you would even attempt to write about time in prose is admirable, courageous, and downright human. Wendell Berry in his poem (speaking to the place of wild things, the poem you included in a previous 3QD essay) noted that animals have no forethought of grief or death. Well, they don't get all fussy about time, who's right about it, who should know, and why it matters. -- all puns intended!
As for time and timing and poetry, I'll include a translation by Natalie Goldberg of Basho that broke my heart for its failure to question her thinking. (If I dare say so, its lack also shows what many American poets don't understand about why poetry even matters.)
She translates:
At the ancient pond
a frog plunges into
the sound of water.
I think you understand why this translation made me want to go to Basho's stone at the Poet's Garden in Asakusa Temple immediately, and weep while contemplating the very inscription he himself carved on the stone.
This translation completely foregoes recognition of uji and being-time in its practice of writing poetry for the reader/listener to participate in the being-time the poem voices.
BTW so lovely to see Kazy's photo!
Thank you so much for remembering Kazy's photograph at one of the Zen temples in Kamakura!! Also, I did not realize that there was a female leader--in fact, I am not sure I even knew about Shinnyo-en. The Goldberg translation is interesting for what she does with time. But I completely agree with this: "This translation completely foregoes recognition of uji and being-time in its practice of writing poetry for the reader/listener to participate in the being-time the poem voices." I especially like what you said about "voice".... the sound. Totally agree with you. I have never been a Goldberg fan though.
Not sure I know who Goldberg is; this translation came in Olga Livshin's facebook timeline. Is Goldberg the woman who wrote about writing? Write Down Your Bones or something like that? I never cared to read it. Olga Livshin is the lovely woman here who read a manuscript for me a few years ago; I never pursued her tutelage because I quickly realized that Olga does not work with sound in its weight of the being-time in a poem, its capacity to create the reader's participation in a very different way than relying on the reader's thought-by-thought-by thought processes.
Shinnyo-en is relatively new. Here is a lovely piece my brother wrote about his experience at a Shinnyo-en sponsored autumnal equinox service in Manhattan.
http://new-savanna.blogspot.com/2013/09/conjunctions-on-autumn-equinox.html
Yes, she is the one who wrote Writing Down the Bones. I think your focus on the musicality of poetry makes so much sense and is so right. It has a lot of resonance --of course you know this already-- with Shingon Buddhism and its focus on sound. Looking forward to reading Bill's piece about the service. I don't think I have heard of Shinnyo-en before... there is another new religious I just heard about yesterday --here in Pasadena. It's called Shumei and is an off-shoot of the Shinto-inspired Oomoto religious group (that is the group that Alex Kerr worked with when he first came to Japan. He is my favorite write on Japan. Sorry for the delay!
To clarify (again -- my mind has drifted, sorry): Shinnyo-en was founded by Shinso-Ito in 1937 and is currently headed by his daughter, Keishu Shinso-Ito as his direct successor. He originally trained at Daigo-ji, eventually splitting to found Shinnyo-en, after having left the aerospace industy.
Also I wrote this review of Goldberg's latest book Three Lines, which I liked less than it seems in this review https://asianreviewofbooks.com/content/three-simple-lines-a-writers-pilgrimage-into-the-heart-and-homeland-of-haiku-by-natalie-goldberg/
Back to yesterday's discussion! I'm so interested in the ideas of time-being and the differing Buddhist approaches of practice/enlightenment/insight in ordering the mind-body (etc etc etc)reflection of time-being. And, without having to be Buddhist practitioners themselves, noh performers likewise have a tradition of disciplined practice that is founded on being the reflection to which the audience is attuned while both performers and audience experience the play together. This reflection can cast time-being so much as to allow actual transformation of the theater goer. And then there is the actual student beginner of noh chant. -- That led up to recital! -- I can't tell you how long I spent listening to different pronunciations of the Japanese r sound! Repeating repeating repeating. At one class my actual sound quality sounded worse over-all than when I started. The recital: Really nervous, especially when I saw I was the first student. And then when I heard Kinue chant from Hagaromo -- I was so deeply touched, and couldn't imagine how I would follow her performance. Nowhere to run. When my turn came, and my voice cracked between the 2nd and 3rd syllable, all I could think of was not to panic into tears, just remember what Richard Armstrong always said "Just focus on your breath. " (I haven't listened to the recital recording, so I can't say how the vibrato I produced compared to an actual utai vibrato, but I daresay that the ease of performance for me from that moment of panic convinces me that a simple application of technique (focus only on breath while producing the sounds) allowed the much more complex transmission of esoteric knowledge (in Kinue's chanting) to engage the fullest time-being relationship we shared in that process of first performer and second performer with attendant listeners. All of which speaks to the abundant capacity of the reflected and reflecting mind-body relationships to appreciate time-being for its manifest expressions from the most hidden to the nuanced and / or extreme.
Read your review of Goldberg. Shocked that she's been a student of Zen for 30 years. I was reminded of a quote from somebody who advised Buddhist practice "Writers should practice Zen and painters practice Vajrayana." I'd suggest just the opposite.
You mention Alex Kerr. I very much enjoyed one of his books you recommended.
Am not familiar with Shumei.
Sally, I loved your chanting and thought you sounded beautiful! There is this fertile ground that you are drawn to of breath/chanting/shingon/poetry, sound that I love so much. Vibrato~~~Also what you said about the deep listening which is in active dialogue between performers and audience ~~~~ so interesting. I know I always say this but not everyone has experiences like this... you should write about it.... especially loved nowhere to run, nowhere to hide!! One more poem coming here in an hour, preparing for tomorrow's essay at 3QD.
Thank you so much, Leanne for listening to my utai! I appreciate your compliment. As for the rest of your comment re: my experiences/draw to this fertile ground. I have to say that I've never wanted to write about myself (longwinded comments excepted). I do however have a vision for translating this material into a mythological woman in a poem. i have copious notes. I hope I regain the energy for writing; I am still furloughed. Your encouragement means a great deal to me. I can't say that enough. xoxoxoxo
Oh, and happily anticipating your 3QD essay!