There's a lot to think about here, Leanne, but the thing that jumped out at me was the character Stephen's inability to speak Japanese, even though he could read it 'fluently'. This is inconceivable to me. How can one know how to translate a language without being able to speak it? It's a question I ask myself as well. For me, language is so intrinsically entwined with sound, that I'm unable to think how it might be otherwise. It may have to do with how I learned the languages I speak, (and how I write, too, hearing the words). Only Latin is the exception.
Your feeling like an insider in Japan is the same way I feel in Germany. A chameleon aspect of the psyche fits you right in until such time being an insider has become second nature.
That is how I feel-- I felt so at home there, and to some extent feel at home in Hawaii as well, all the while feeling like a complete outsider here in LA!! Regarding translators, they really are different from interpreters--especially in the Victorian days. A translator friend reminded me that the famous Japanese and Chinese translator Arthur Waley (Tale of Genji etc) could famously (infamously?) not speak a word in either language...also many of the "great" European scholars of the silk road were fluent reading multiple ancient languages that they could not speak... so Stephen is probably very possible, though I stopped and really had to imagine how he would handle all the slang. For what it's worth, I am studying classical Chinese and am making no effort to learn to pronounce it--just enjoying learning the characters (read and write) and make translations of the poetry... if I continue, though, living in such a globalized world, I would really like to learn the modern language including speaking.
“A chameleon aspect of the psyche fits you right in until such time being an insider has become second nature.”
Well put. In Japan, I (like Leanne) am at once insider and outsider, depending on who I’m with or where I am. But even when I’m an “outsider,” I rarely feel unwelcome, excluded, unwanted, or unaccepted.
Fwiw, I can read Dutch and Chinese with a degree of comprehension; but I would never dare try attempt to translate them beyond a very simple level (I can speak neither; my non-native languages are Japanese and the German I picked up during five years in Niedersachsen and Hamburg).
I’ve felt unwelcome at times. But I felt that sometimes in Germany, too—before I came to Japan; and in the US—while on visits after I came to Japan (the old “This is ’Merika, boy; an’ here ’n ’Merika, we tawk ’Merrykan!” kind of 🐂💩 .
Damn. Spot on, Leanne. The closing out portion, I mean. In many ways, I am Stephan too. Each of our three sons is different, too. I’m not sure any of them thinks much about his ethnic or other identity, though—which I also think is a _good_ thing.
Good. He shouldn’t! He should just be himself! His identity is what he is—everything in his background, and _that_ is unique.
I envy his being in Hawaii. I wish more of the US was like Hawaii rather than trying to pigeonhole people into what they “ought” to be because of some element of their background, though I feel that they opposite is happening: The mainland’s identity politics’ coming to dominate in Hawaii too. Nothing like ideologues ruining a good thing! :P
That sounds like one to read! I also struggle with being a white woman with a fascination for Japanese culture and aesthetics; where does appreciation stop and appropriation begin? My kids call me a weeb - which I know is offensive and I don’t identify as that at all. My fascination comes via zen and Buddhism and has expanded into culture and concepts. I enjoyed Yellowface; sounds like I need to read this book.
Fascinating! I think I've been approaching publication all wrong. Given that the first thing I remember ever doing was to compose a haiku, maybe I can claim insider designation of some kind? Lol!
It’s so interesting because even the Japanese woman whose book Stephen is translating is also a fake. Everyone’s persona is constructed, but I think if you consider that every person is a story, some stories are much more authentic than others but this book just challenges everything! I couldn’t put it down!
That sounds wonderful, too--and not so bad not to have WiFI in the Casitas. The first few times I went to Ragdale, there was no internet in the rooms. You had to go to the main house to use it. (And no cell phones then, either.) It was actually kind of wonderful.
I can imagine. The Director said that many writers really want to unplug so it could actually be wonderful like you said! If you read this novel, I would love to hear your thoughts.
I am leaving for Taos on June 3 and I’ll be at the residency until August 14. I can’t believe I’m going to be away so long! But I’m also really looking forward to it. It’s not Italy but I do love Northern New Mexico. But the Casitas don’t have Wi-Fi, which is kind of surprising because a lot of writers need the Internet for research.
I really think you would love this book! I wish there was more about publishing in it although there was a lot in the end. The main focus is on academia and it takes place in a small liberal arts college based on Bard university…. It was a really good book! When do you leave for Italy? I really wish I was going!
This was my experience as well. This is probably speaking to the way that the Japanese American experience is not the same as the Japanese experience and that language ability really has a lot to do with the picture, but I don’t think it’s all language, it’s more of cultural body know-how in addition to language. …. it doesn’t turn me off that Stephen wants to just learn to read and write. I don’t think it’s a moral issue per se and one of my friends on Facebook reminded me that the great translator Arthur Waley famously never spoke Japanese or Chinese. I’m also currently embarking on classical Chinese and I’m not learning any spoken language, but if I were to live there in China, I would quickly change my approach! Not because I should but because I would probably want to,…When I returned to the United States at 44, I had really lived my total adult life in Japan from the age of 20 and I have still not been able to readjust to here. Maybe it was because I was so young when I went to Japan, but I did not find integration that challenging, but I am definitely finding it to be hard here.!
There's a lot to think about here, Leanne, but the thing that jumped out at me was the character Stephen's inability to speak Japanese, even though he could read it 'fluently'. This is inconceivable to me. How can one know how to translate a language without being able to speak it? It's a question I ask myself as well. For me, language is so intrinsically entwined with sound, that I'm unable to think how it might be otherwise. It may have to do with how I learned the languages I speak, (and how I write, too, hearing the words). Only Latin is the exception.
Your feeling like an insider in Japan is the same way I feel in Germany. A chameleon aspect of the psyche fits you right in until such time being an insider has become second nature.
That is how I feel-- I felt so at home there, and to some extent feel at home in Hawaii as well, all the while feeling like a complete outsider here in LA!! Regarding translators, they really are different from interpreters--especially in the Victorian days. A translator friend reminded me that the famous Japanese and Chinese translator Arthur Waley (Tale of Genji etc) could famously (infamously?) not speak a word in either language...also many of the "great" European scholars of the silk road were fluent reading multiple ancient languages that they could not speak... so Stephen is probably very possible, though I stopped and really had to imagine how he would handle all the slang. For what it's worth, I am studying classical Chinese and am making no effort to learn to pronounce it--just enjoying learning the characters (read and write) and make translations of the poetry... if I continue, though, living in such a globalized world, I would really like to learn the modern language including speaking.
“A chameleon aspect of the psyche fits you right in until such time being an insider has become second nature.”
Well put. In Japan, I (like Leanne) am at once insider and outsider, depending on who I’m with or where I am. But even when I’m an “outsider,” I rarely feel unwelcome, excluded, unwanted, or unaccepted.
Fwiw, I can read Dutch and Chinese with a degree of comprehension; but I would never dare try attempt to translate them beyond a very simple level (I can speak neither; my non-native languages are Japanese and the German I picked up during five years in Niedersachsen and Hamburg).
I also only rarely felt unwelcome ❤️
I’ve felt unwelcome at times. But I felt that sometimes in Germany, too—before I came to Japan; and in the US—while on visits after I came to Japan (the old “This is ’Merika, boy; an’ here ’n ’Merika, we tawk ’Merrykan!” kind of 🐂💩 .
Damn. Spot on, Leanne. The closing out portion, I mean. In many ways, I am Stephan too. Each of our three sons is different, too. I’m not sure any of them thinks much about his ethnic or other identity, though—which I also think is a _good_ thing.
I was so happy to hear from you this evening! And honestly, I don’t think Kaz thinks do much about it either! Especially now that he’s in Hawaii!
Good. He shouldn’t! He should just be himself! His identity is what he is—everything in his background, and _that_ is unique.
I envy his being in Hawaii. I wish more of the US was like Hawaii rather than trying to pigeonhole people into what they “ought” to be because of some element of their background, though I feel that they opposite is happening: The mainland’s identity politics’ coming to dominate in Hawaii too. Nothing like ideologues ruining a good thing! :P
That sounds like one to read! I also struggle with being a white woman with a fascination for Japanese culture and aesthetics; where does appreciation stop and appropriation begin? My kids call me a weeb - which I know is offensive and I don’t identify as that at all. My fascination comes via zen and Buddhism and has expanded into culture and concepts. I enjoyed Yellowface; sounds like I need to read this book.
Your kids are so sweet and fun to tease you like that!! My son says stuff like to me too!! If you read this book I would love to hear your thoughts!
I think you'll love it (once you get used to it).
Will let you know what I think about the book.
❤️
Fascinating! I think I've been approaching publication all wrong. Given that the first thing I remember ever doing was to compose a haiku, maybe I can claim insider designation of some kind? Lol!
It’s so interesting because even the Japanese woman whose book Stephen is translating is also a fake. Everyone’s persona is constructed, but I think if you consider that every person is a story, some stories are much more authentic than others but this book just challenges everything! I couldn’t put it down!
That sounds wonderful, too--and not so bad not to have WiFI in the Casitas. The first few times I went to Ragdale, there was no internet in the rooms. You had to go to the main house to use it. (And no cell phones then, either.) It was actually kind of wonderful.
I can imagine. The Director said that many writers really want to unplug so it could actually be wonderful like you said! If you read this novel, I would love to hear your thoughts.
Probably a few day trips. Perugia and Spoleto are nearby.
It's not too late if coming is possible. (I think I could get you the "early bird" rate.) If not, with luck, next year.
I am leaving for Taos on June 3 and I’ll be at the residency until August 14. I can’t believe I’m going to be away so long! But I’m also really looking forward to it. It’s not Italy but I do love Northern New Mexico. But the Casitas don’t have Wi-Fi, which is kind of surprising because a lot of writers need the Internet for research.
Already on my to-read list! I especially love books about the absurdity of academia.
I'll be in Italy June 26-July 10. I wish you were going, too!
It’s definitely a campus farce! Are you going to travel anywhere else this time? Really really wish I was going!
The book sounds delicious and, as always, I love your thoughts on culture.
I really think you would love this book! I wish there was more about publishing in it although there was a lot in the end. The main focus is on academia and it takes place in a small liberal arts college based on Bard university…. It was a really good book! When do you leave for Italy? I really wish I was going!
This was my experience as well. This is probably speaking to the way that the Japanese American experience is not the same as the Japanese experience and that language ability really has a lot to do with the picture, but I don’t think it’s all language, it’s more of cultural body know-how in addition to language. …. it doesn’t turn me off that Stephen wants to just learn to read and write. I don’t think it’s a moral issue per se and one of my friends on Facebook reminded me that the great translator Arthur Waley famously never spoke Japanese or Chinese. I’m also currently embarking on classical Chinese and I’m not learning any spoken language, but if I were to live there in China, I would quickly change my approach! Not because I should but because I would probably want to,…When I returned to the United States at 44, I had really lived my total adult life in Japan from the age of 20 and I have still not been able to readjust to here. Maybe it was because I was so young when I went to Japan, but I did not find integration that challenging, but I am definitely finding it to be hard here.!