The "dated" quality of translations is interesting to me. I have several translations of Sappho's poetry. There is less obvious differences in the translations that are attributable to the time in which they were translated. The original texts are mostly fragments (only one or two complete poems), however, and I think this contributes to the situation -- less of the original available, more to discern but less to fuss over. Does that make sense? I really applaud how you chose the emphasis on image for the Chieko poems.
This is probably a much bigger issue and longer prose! No I’m sure it’s an issue in poetry as well. New translation of the Iliad. I think it’s coming out by Daniel Mendelsohn. I hope I’m remembering that correctly. I am a huge fan of his memoir!
It’s so interesting though if you really really really admire a certain kind of literature, I mean, how much did Japanese colonize my English when I first came back to thinking and writing in English? Thinking of him as a translator really made me want to try and reread his work again because I have not really been a fan.
Thank you for the comments! After thinking about Murakami’s fractured Japanese (thanks to you!) I’ve just had a brainwave about the translation of European literature into Japanese. Sorry, I’m not going to let you into it yet!
Translations become dated due to changing tastes and fashions in the receiving culture. We can read Pope with the proviso that we are reading the thoughts and feelings of an Englishman in the 18th century. We are less interested in reading the Odyssey as filtered through the tastes and feelings of an 18th century Englishman. When we read translations we are always made aware of linguistic and cultural trends in our own culture when we really want to access the original without the baggage. Inevitable, I suppose, unless you could freeze culture in time.
I’ve only briefly looked at Murakami’s prose but what is striking is his complete abandonment of traditional Japanese linguistic and stylistic conventions. Grammar does matter. It’s like the difference between the flowery pre-modern style of journalistic writing and our modern style of journalism, with its conventions of headlinese and spare prose that uses various linguistic devices to insert background information (I often find English-language journalism in Japan awkward due to ungainly use of these hackneyed devices.) I wonder how Murakmi’s translation of Gatsby might read. Would it be a translation into ordinary Japanese literary prose, would it faithfully mirror the structure of the original, or would it, horror of horrors, be a translation into Murakami-ese?
You put that so brilliantly and it’s really interesting to think about just that point that we are less receptive to times slips when it comes to the translations and then the original. It’s really interesting! Murakami Was a writer I never admired because of his Japanese basically which I thought was engineered to be easy to translate but now I’m thinking something quite different that he was so deeply influenced by American modernism that it actually created a unique style of writing Japanese so if I ever go back to him, I’m definitely going to return with new eyes!
Your writing is beautiful! Also though it comes as no surprise that Murakami would be interested in the most American of novels, it fascinates me just the same. It almost makes me want to learn Japanese to read his translation, to feel his consciousness filtered through Fitzgerald’s words.
Thank you so much, Clare!! And I completely agree that it is not surprising that he loves the most American of writers--in the same book there was an essay by one of his translators about how people say that Murakami's prose in Japanese is oddly devoid of japanese qualities, but the translator explains that it is his style and comes out of a love of Chandler and Fitzgerald... it is very interesting. I am not a huge Murakami fan but felt much more interested in reading more of him after this!!
Yes, when I read him in English I don’t feel like I’m reading a Japanese author at all (though whatever what is I can’t exactly say). There was a point when I even tried to read his novels in Korean in hopes of getting closer to “feeling” his original Japanese prose (as grammar/vocab of the two languages are similar), but now that you mention that I have a sneaking suspicion that it never will and English probably reads just as well ;P
That is what I came to feel about his work--strangely that there was no real reason to read it in the original! I would be much more interested in reading Murakami's translation of Gatsby in Japanese though!!
I’d never really thought about the depth and approach of translation before; to bring out the imagery or the musicality for example. How wonderful! And how translation dates because language changes so much over time. Fascinating!
Right after I wrote this, I was reading on in Jennifer Croft's novel and she described the ephemerality of translations versus the "eternal nature" of the original text.... it was such a beautiful description. It is interesting to just wonder abut what this says about translation. Literary translation is such a different kettle of fish though from other kinds of translation work. One job I had was working for government and in translating white papers on telecommunications, my translations were then translated back into Japanese and compared with the original text. If anything was altered or missing, I had to change it, even if it read strangely or was unpleasant to read in the English translation, it was a legal document so had to be done like that.
Thank you!! By the way, I finished Martyr and LOVED it!!! I was really iffy about it when I started but kept reading it because if your review... but about three quarters in, I fell in love with it!
The "dated" quality of translations is interesting to me. I have several translations of Sappho's poetry. There is less obvious differences in the translations that are attributable to the time in which they were translated. The original texts are mostly fragments (only one or two complete poems), however, and I think this contributes to the situation -- less of the original available, more to discern but less to fuss over. Does that make sense? I really applaud how you chose the emphasis on image for the Chieko poems.
This is probably a much bigger issue and longer prose! No I’m sure it’s an issue in poetry as well. New translation of the Iliad. I think it’s coming out by Daniel Mendelsohn. I hope I’m remembering that correctly. I am a huge fan of his memoir!
I mean, can the man actually write ordinary Japanese?
It’s so interesting though if you really really really admire a certain kind of literature, I mean, how much did Japanese colonize my English when I first came back to thinking and writing in English? Thinking of him as a translator really made me want to try and reread his work again because I have not really been a fan.
Thank you for the comments! After thinking about Murakami’s fractured Japanese (thanks to you!) I’ve just had a brainwave about the translation of European literature into Japanese. Sorry, I’m not going to let you into it yet!
Oh!! Now I am curious 👀
Translations become dated due to changing tastes and fashions in the receiving culture. We can read Pope with the proviso that we are reading the thoughts and feelings of an Englishman in the 18th century. We are less interested in reading the Odyssey as filtered through the tastes and feelings of an 18th century Englishman. When we read translations we are always made aware of linguistic and cultural trends in our own culture when we really want to access the original without the baggage. Inevitable, I suppose, unless you could freeze culture in time.
I’ve only briefly looked at Murakami’s prose but what is striking is his complete abandonment of traditional Japanese linguistic and stylistic conventions. Grammar does matter. It’s like the difference between the flowery pre-modern style of journalistic writing and our modern style of journalism, with its conventions of headlinese and spare prose that uses various linguistic devices to insert background information (I often find English-language journalism in Japan awkward due to ungainly use of these hackneyed devices.) I wonder how Murakmi’s translation of Gatsby might read. Would it be a translation into ordinary Japanese literary prose, would it faithfully mirror the structure of the original, or would it, horror of horrors, be a translation into Murakami-ese?
You put that so brilliantly and it’s really interesting to think about just that point that we are less receptive to times slips when it comes to the translations and then the original. It’s really interesting! Murakami Was a writer I never admired because of his Japanese basically which I thought was engineered to be easy to translate but now I’m thinking something quite different that he was so deeply influenced by American modernism that it actually created a unique style of writing Japanese so if I ever go back to him, I’m definitely going to return with new eyes!
Your writing is beautiful! Also though it comes as no surprise that Murakami would be interested in the most American of novels, it fascinates me just the same. It almost makes me want to learn Japanese to read his translation, to feel his consciousness filtered through Fitzgerald’s words.
Thank you so much, Clare!! And I completely agree that it is not surprising that he loves the most American of writers--in the same book there was an essay by one of his translators about how people say that Murakami's prose in Japanese is oddly devoid of japanese qualities, but the translator explains that it is his style and comes out of a love of Chandler and Fitzgerald... it is very interesting. I am not a huge Murakami fan but felt much more interested in reading more of him after this!!
Yes, when I read him in English I don’t feel like I’m reading a Japanese author at all (though whatever what is I can’t exactly say). There was a point when I even tried to read his novels in Korean in hopes of getting closer to “feeling” his original Japanese prose (as grammar/vocab of the two languages are similar), but now that you mention that I have a sneaking suspicion that it never will and English probably reads just as well ;P
That is what I came to feel about his work--strangely that there was no real reason to read it in the original! I would be much more interested in reading Murakami's translation of Gatsby in Japanese though!!
I’d never really thought about the depth and approach of translation before; to bring out the imagery or the musicality for example. How wonderful! And how translation dates because language changes so much over time. Fascinating!
Right after I wrote this, I was reading on in Jennifer Croft's novel and she described the ephemerality of translations versus the "eternal nature" of the original text.... it was such a beautiful description. It is interesting to just wonder abut what this says about translation. Literary translation is such a different kettle of fish though from other kinds of translation work. One job I had was working for government and in translating white papers on telecommunications, my translations were then translated back into Japanese and compared with the original text. If anything was altered or missing, I had to change it, even if it read strangely or was unpleasant to read in the English translation, it was a legal document so had to be done like that.
Love this post. I'm fascinated by translation and you made me understand some things about it that I hadn't understood before.
Thank you!! By the way, I finished Martyr and LOVED it!!! I was really iffy about it when I started but kept reading it because if your review... but about three quarters in, I fell in love with it!
Glad you ended up liking it.